5B.5.7 Finishes
This discussion has an associated proposal. View Proposal Details here.Comments about this discussion:
Started
Another issue from the closed discussion "General stuff"
in my opinion for races where it is allowed to walk there's no need to cross the finish line riding on the unicycle. For XC, CX and DH I would therefor only prescribe as John suggested:
"At the finish line, mounted riders have the right of way. If a mounted rider and a dismounted rider cross together, or within X number of meters, the mounted rider should be counted as the faster."
For UH I would leave the rule as it is actually.
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First of all, I agree that walking over the finish line should be possible (broken uni, etc.).
I'm only a bit concerned whether this would allow dismounts on purpose (like jumping off forward) to get over the finish line a split second faster, especially in DH. Maybe it could be solved by defining the finish time to be when the last out of rider AND unicycle has crossed the line? Then riding will always be fastest.
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Good point. can you add this at the suggestion (your english is better than mine)?
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Actually, I'm just thinking how we could realize this (finish time = both rider+uni over the finish line) with the chip based systems that are always used. Two chips, one on the rider and one on the muni? Sounds a bit complicated just for the rare case of dismounts at the finish line.
Maybe instead: If the rider dismounts right before the finish line but still crosses it, he gets 3 penalty seconds added to his time. What do you think?
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As a previous race organiser, it adds expense in terms of chips (many are disposable now), to have a chip for both the rider and the unicycle.
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Ok, so I think Ben's idea with the penalty seconds is perfect. Maybe 3 is much? What do you think about 1 or 2?
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I think 2 is reasonable
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Yeah, 2 seems good to me.
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Ok. So should I make the proposal?
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Please go ahead. Thanks for making all these proposals, by the way. Before the proposals will be open for discussion, an admin has to approve them so you don't see them immediately. "Table" means to set it aside.
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Ok, thanks.
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I made the proposal. I'm in doubt about my english. Can someone please correct it?
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The proposal looks good, but please consider the amount of detailed recordkeeping required to make time adjustments, especially for large heats or busy events like the Spain Cyclocross. Manually adding all of those might add half an hour before race results could be posted. Also in a situation like the large heats in Spain, it would require more than two people to track all the riders not riding across the line. My wife was one of two people trying to count laps for the huge group of people in the non-elite heat of the Cyclocross in Spain, and they gave up after a while because things were just happening too fast to track.
What to do? I think of two possible solutions:
For XC and Downhill, increase the time. Minimum 5 seconds. The amount has to be enough that the rider will be positive it will not be helpful to fall or try to run past someone at the line. Maybe more, but at least 5 seconds. It will also encourage riders to try to stay mounted as they cross the line.
For Cyclocross, where a more crowded and jostling scene is expected, just allow it. As long as people aren't interfering with each other, this allows the "style of locomotion" of this race to continue across the finish. And the nightmare of recording time penalties will be eliminated
Please discuss.
A second topic mentioned was how to quantify the "riding across the line" thing. The old method, from Track, was defining that the back of the wheel had to cross the line before any body parts touched the ground. This entailed riding an extra meter or so beyond the timed distance. Yes, we know that. If people can't get over that extra meter, you could do the chip timing 1 meter past the "visual" finish line, and count dismounts from there. Kind of stupid, but hey, we're unicyclists. We obviously like doing things the hard way.
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Now that John brings it up I agree that 2 seconds is a bit low. What about 10s like for false starts? If your uni is broken and you have to walk, the time doesn't matter anyway. But it would give a good motivation to ride across the line for all other riders. I'm also fine with John's suggestion that in Cyclocross you can also finish running/walking, would fit the character of the discipline.
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if we want to rule this it must be a significant penalty. i would prefer one minute.
so this is a motivation - even if you fall to mount again and ride across the line.
if your muni is broken it wont bother you anyway
it would be better and easy the rules, to rule the same as upphill
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Now that I'm thinking about the additional time to adjust the results, I agree with Jogi that for XC and DH "it would be better and easy the rules, to rule the same as uphill".
For CX I agree with John: "For Cyclocross, where a more crowded and jostling scene is expected, just allow it."
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I think 10 seconds is a good time penalty for all muni (except cyclecross).
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sorry, I'm confused: to let the old rule for XC ad DH (as I mentioned just before) will not work for broken unis.
I think, 10 seconds is too much: Example: close finish. 2 riders come side by side. fighting for the 3th place overall. ca 10-15 meters behind them another rider. the two in front give all, to finish faster. one of them falls over the finish line. with a 2 s penalty, this one will be 4th in the ranking, even if he crossed the finish-line a little bit before his opponent. with a 10 s penalty in my opinion this rider is penalized too much, because he would be 5th in the ranking instead of 4th.
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I think 10 seconds is ok because in the old rules if you fell off before the finish line you could have to get back up, grab your unicycle which could be several meters away, go back and remount and cross the finish line. This could easily take 10 seconds depending on how bad the crash was. And anyone that crosses it in the meantime would place higher than you.
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I agree with 10 seconds.
Riders should be discouraged from uncontrolled speeding up in last seconds of the race. This is very important measure in terms of safety of other riders, especially in close finishes.
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I'll get in on the 10-second train. That's probably the minimum amount of time that people might perceive as a good incentive to not dismount at the finish. Yes, it's very hard on riders that are crossing the line in groups, though it only matters most for the first few riders.
I think a minute would be way too much. Very few riders are actually trying to dismount on purpose; for most they are just giving it their all. We want the penalty to be enough to eliminate any advantage from intentional dismounts.
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I updated the proposal. 10 s penalty in XC and DH. No penalty in CX.
Ben, can you help me with the finish line camera?
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Maybe similar to what I wrote in the revised false start rules:
At Unicons and continental championships, a camera has to be set up by the Muni Officials (section 5C) to record the finish line from a suitable angle. The official footage from this camera serves as evidence in case of dismounts over the finish line or other protests after the race.
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Small English change "riding requires more skill" instead of "riding needs more skills"