Rule 14B.8.6 Restart after a goal clarification (Closed for comments)
Comments about this discussion:
Started
14B.8.6 Restart After A Goal
After a goal, the non-scoring team gets the ball. All players must go to their own half. After the Referee’s whistle, the game resumes when the ball or a player of the team in possession crosses the center line. It is legal to directly shoot a goal after passing the center line, for example without passing the ball to another player first.
If in a game the team who is starting with the ball crosses the halfway line BEFORE the referees whistle is
a) The ball brought back to the team and play resumes after the referee whistle
Or
b) The team who crossed before the whistle is penalised with ball changing possession to the opposing team.
A completely different rule, Rule 14C.2.6, states “If the teams start to play even though the game had not been started by the Referee, it is stopped immediately by two or more quick consecutive blows of the whistle.” In this case a team crossing halfway before a referee gives the signal should not be penalised.
Rule needs clarification to enable better refereeing.
Comment
In my opinion penalize the team crossing halfway before the referee whistles makes no sense, as you said.
This rule needs additional clarification:
If in a game the team who has scored a goal crosses the halfway line or hits the ball BEFORE the game is resumed, the game is interrupted by the referee and is
a) The ball brought back to the team and play resumes according to rule 14B.8.6
OR
b) Given a free shot at the center line.
Comment
May be a small rule change will solve this problem. Why not restart (not "resume") with a goalkeeper´s ball after a goal?
After a goal, the non-scoring team gets the ball. All players must go to their own half. This teams start with a free shot according to 14B.7.1 (goalkeeper’s ball).
After the Referee’s whistle, the game resumes when the ball or a player of the team in possession crosses the center line.
In case of a violation e.g. by the opponent team crossing the halfway line to early, the referee should restart the game again with goalkeeper´s ball.
Comment
I do not fully understand what you mean Herbert. How would this rule exactly work and what would be the benefit of the rule change?
Could you describe your statement in an different way?
Comment
I think all we need to do is to add one sentence to 14C.2.6 (shown in uppercase):
----- START
If the teams start to play even though the game had not been started by the Referee, it is stopped immediately by two or more quick consecutive blows of the whistle. THEN, THE BALL IS RETURNED AND PLAY RESUMES AFTER THE REFEREE'S WHISTLE.
----- END
Note that this not only applies to the restart after a goal, but also to all other restarts of the game (free shot, 6.50m).
Comment
How to restart a game? More ore less when the game was interrupted by whistle blow we restart the game from a specific point on the ground (a free shot where a foul has happen, from a corner mark, from a 6.5 m mark, from the center mark, with goalies ball, 1 m from theside line), the ball is not moving and not until then the referee whistles. Not so after a goal. The team can try to attack in hit-and-run style, hopefully all Players in there own half and the referee blows the whistle before a now attacking player or the crosses the center line. In this occasionally extreme short time the referee should "wait until both teams are back in their own halves and ready
to continue" (14C.2.6), "should check here that the secretary notes the goal. To control this it may be useful for the Referees to write down the score themselves." (14C.2.7). The benefit to restart after a goal with a whistle blow with a goalies ball would be that the referee becomes prior time to get the teams sorted in their own halve and ready to continue. The first movement of the ball should happen after the whistle blow and the game resume for both teams as before. (In this case "restart" the game and "resume" playing will have different meanings.) This kind of restart after a goal is more clear and may enables better refereeing.
Comment
The restart from the goalie works in my opinion. It gives a set up like a free shot that must wait for the whistle and ensures the referee blows the whistle on HIS terms when he is ready, not because the attacking team is about to cross half way.
Comment
Yes, you got the sense. How to formulate this in a short rule?
Comment
14B.8.6 Restart After A Goal
After a goal, all players must go to their own half. After the Referee’s whistle, the non scoring team resumes the game from a goalie ball. The scoring team may not cross into the opponents half until the ball or a player of the team in possession of the ball crosses the center line. It is legal to directly shoot a goal after passing the center line, for example without passing the ball to another player first.
??
Comment
Good work!
Comment
I see what you mean but do not agree.
A referee can take as many time as he needs to "wait until both teams are back in their own halves and ready to continue" (14C.2.6) and "check that the secretary notes the goal." (14C.2.7). So in my point of view the benefit is marginal but it extends the time where the teams are not playing.
I think it works in the way Rolf suggested. This would be easy and not such a significant rule change. This would also refer to other situations we discussed.
The rule change you suggested Steven does not fully refer to the unclarity I came up with. If the opposing team attacks to early and the goal keepers ball is redone much time would be wasted. Therefore I would be more reasonable to do a free shot at the center mark when the opposing team attacks to early (its a violation of the rules).
Comment
I agree with both Rolf and Nicolai. In my eyes we should not change the game in this way.
And please consider: If we start with a goal keeper ball, the players can even more waste time:
First they can wait some seconds with executing the goal keeper ball and after they can wait again some seconds until they cross the center line.
Comment
Possibly it is different in how teams play. In our league we don't have issues with teams wasting time after a goal is scored against them rather the issue is teams trying to cross too early before the referee has blown the whistle.
And based on the rule suggestion earlier (below) that a team crossing before the whistle gets the ball returned to them then team can still waste time by crossing before the referee has blown the whistle and hitting the ball down the other end which then requires everyone to go back on side and the ball returned to their side to restart. This has just as much scope to time waste as having a goalie ball to start. The idea of the goalie ball to start was actually to prevent the team who has been scored against from attacking too QUICKLY not too slowly.
"If the teams start to play even though the game had not been started by the Referee, it is stopped immediately by two or more quick consecutive blows of the whistle. THEN, THE BALL IS RETURNED AND PLAY RESUMES AFTER THE REFEREE'S WHISTLE."
Comment
I disagree with Nicolai and Christian according wasting of time. There is more or less no change. If you want a quick resume of the game it is easy to place the ball ready to play and for the whistle of the referee. Don´t mix the idea of this rule change with intentional delay and unsporting behaviour, this in an other discussion.
Comment
I agree with not mixing different discussion, but we should discuss all parts of a rule change.
I think the difficulty of teams crossing the center line too early is not only a matter of the rule but also a matter of the referee. If the attacking team is called off by the referee they probably wait the next time until the referee has blown the whistle.
According to me a rule change to a goal keeper ball would be e large hassle to remember the new rule for all players and the referee.
Comment
Nicolai sorry I don´t understand what you will say with "If the attacking team is called off by the referee they probably wait the next time until the referee has blown the whistle."
"According to me a rule change to a goal keeper ball would be e large hassle to remember the new rule for all players and the referee."
- goal
- ball into position for a goalie ball (The ball stops!)
- teams set up in their own halves
- referee blows the whistle
- Games resumes (with a short prevention from the attacking team like before)
This is more or less the same as every free shot. I can´t see any problems with this rule by players or referee.
Comment
If we really want to introduce a goalkeeper ball after a goal, I advise to test this rule over a longer period in training games, practice weekend (...) and ask other players what they think. At the moment, for me it is completely unnecessary and I see no raison to introduce this rule. When we got more experience we can decide this in the next year IUF rulebook committee.
apart from that, what Steven wrote at the end of his comment should be taken into the rules:
"If the teams start to play even though the game had not been started by the Referee, it is stopped immediately by two or more quick consecutive blows of the whistle. THEN, THE BALL IS RETURNED AND PLAY RESUMES AFTER THE REFEREE'S WHISTLE."
Comment
I dont see any reason why it would be hard to remember this rule either. It is very simple and only a slight change. I think each team getting called back once will waste more time than a goalie ball will but in our league we have issues with teams going too fast not too slow.
I have discussed with people in my league the possible rule and they at first wondered what was the point of it but when explained they thought it would be a benefit. Again maybe it is the difference in how the leagues play.
Comment
I agree with Herbert that there is a problem with the non-scoring team
crossing the center line before the referee's whistle. However, I think
starting with goalie ball creates new problems. First of all, we then
have a strange game status between the goalie ball and crossing the
center line. Has the game started or not? I think the game is in a
strange "limbo" status. What if the goalie touches the ball twice? Is it
okay because they haven't crossed the center line yet? Or is it not okay
because touching twice is illegal for a free shot?
Another problem is the double task for the referee. First, he/she needs
to check that the goalie ball is done properly. Second, he/she needs to
check at the same time that all players are in their own halves. This
means looking into two directions at the same time.
I would like to make a new suggestion for a well-defined start after a goal:
"After a goal, all players must go to their own half. The non-scoring
team gets a free shot at the center mark."
The game starts immediately when the free shot is executed.
Comment
Another problem is the double task for the referee. First, he/she needs
to check that the goalie ball is done properly. Second, he/she needs to
check at the same time that all players are in their own halves. This
means looking into two directions at the same time.
I agree with this however we do have two referees also.
The free shot at the centermark may work, It seems to make the team having the free shot start much more statically than previously, however they can still pass it back to their own defence then go forward if they wish to get a more running start.
Would we rule that as soon as they hit the free shot at centremark that the opposition can cross halfway even if the team with the free shot pass it backwards and no one has crossed halfway?
Comment
@Herbert: If a team attacks too early and they have to redo their restart after the goal their advantage of playing quickly is gone. They cannot make any more a fast attack and have lost some time. If I was in a team attacking too early I would rather wait the next time until the referee has blown his whistle.
The problem is not about the rule itself but remembering it. In the game as a player I doubt that I put the ball for a goalie ball, I rather would try to do a quick attack. This rule would be against the habit of many players.
Steven suggested the following a weak ago:
"14B.8.6 Restart After A Goal
After a goal, all players must go to their own half. After the Referee’s whistle, the non scoring team resumes the game from a goalie ball. The scoring team may not cross into the opponents half until the ball or a player of the team in possession of the ball crosses the center line. It is legal to directly shoot a goal after passing the center line, for example without passing the ball to another player first."
What would be if the team having the goalie ball crosses the center line before hitting the ball (to reach a long, high and flicked pass)? Can in this situation the scoring team attack?
I totally agree with the "strange game status" Rolf mentioned.
With the free shot at the center mark I see also some problems: Have both teams to be in their own half when executing the free shot? If yes, what would be if a player crosses the center line before the free shot was executed? I think in this case both teams can cross the center line and it is a normal free shot at the center mark. This doesn’t look like a clear restart after a goal.
I think the problem with attacking too early or crossing the center line too early (scoring team) does exist with almost every rule I can imagine. As I already said I think this problem is about the referees not the rule. If the referee has a suitable rule to penalize the offending team/player or to let replay the start after a goal the current rule should work.
Comment
> Would we rule that as soon as they hit the free shot at centremark
> that the opposition can cross halfway even if the team with the free
> shot pass it backwards and no one has crossed halfway?
Yes, Steven, that was my idea. The game starts immediately when the free
shot is executed, just as for any other free shot.
> Have both teams to be in their own half when executing the free shot?
> If yes, what would be if a player crosses the center line before the
> free shot was executed?
Nicolai, I think this will work the same way as the 2 m distance rule
for a normal free shot: The opposing players have to stay in their own
half until the free shot is executed.
AFAIK, this restart with a free shot at the center mark is very similar
or even identical to the rule they use in football (soccer).
I agree with Nicolai that the problem is about the referees not the
rule. I've seen it very often that the referees start the game a
split-second before the team with the ball crosses the center line
anyway. That's not how it should be. Maybe starting with a free shot
from the center can solve our problem with the referees. However, if we
cannot find a majority for this new rule, I also prefer to keep the old
rule and ask our referees to be more strict.
Comment
I agree with Nicolai. All solutions do not really solve the problem. I come back: let's seriously try all mentioned options a few times, discuss it with others and then we can decide if we want to change anything.
I focus on evaluating the time it needs after a goal to restart. I suppose: If we restart in the middle with a free shot, it needs a lot of time after the goal to place the ball in the middle (referee has to place the ball), then they can play backwards and it can take another few seconds till someone cross the middleline. But as I said, I will test the options the next weekend in our national training camp.
Comment
I agree. Let's test both options (goalie ball and free shot at center
mark) in real life before we make a new rule that affects the game quite
a bit. Let's hear what the other players think about it.
Comment
I agree a goalie ball may curse other new problems. Me key is that likewise to all other situations after a whistle blow a game stops the ball has been stopped.
If we restart the game after a goal with a free shot from the centre mark (like in soccer) after blowing the whistle as good to me.
As mentioned before:
- goal (wistle blow)
- teams set up in their own halves
- ball to centre mark (The ball must not move.)
- (2m rule)
- referee blows the whistle
- game resumes like a normal free shot (All players are free to move on the playing field and may cross the the centre line quickly, the executing player can play forward and backwards, only the 2m-rule remains.)
For it sounds very simple, easy to practice for players and referees (plural!).
In Germany is nearly no option for testing during this weekend, I agree with Christian that he likes to test the options on their national training camp. Be aware this rule is not only for A-class-players. Maybe Steven has a chance to test as well on this weekend.
Comment
I can try and get our clubs to try it next weekend
Comment
Next Sunday I try to bring this forward to a training session of players from several clubs/teams and from A-level down to let me say D-level.
Comment
Last weekend I had the chance to try out this rule in different clubs and with different teams and speak to player from A-level down to beginners. For this rule was logical to all when explained. In general ever better the players they more disliked this rule. There was no real majority. Therefore I like to take out my suggestions with goalies ball and the restart from the centre mark.
Going one month back I would prefer Steven option b) "The team who crossed before the whistle is penalised with ball changing possession to the opposing team." in combination with Nicholai's remark in an other discussion from theposion where the violation has happen.
Comment
Sorry to let you wait with my experiences. Nobody in the training camp supported the the suggestions with goalie ball and restart from the centre mark. I do not explain the reasons, because Herbert has already take out the suggestions.
The new suggestion from Herbert is okay for me. However, as a referee I would prefer to once repeat the situation and if it happens again I would change possession to the opposing team.
Comment
I am unsure of whether or not to penalise the player crossing early or not. I am leaning towards not penalising and making them take it back. This way it slows play down which deters them from doing it in future, without giving a harsh penalty to a team that just conceded a goal
Comment
I think we can close this discussion. There seems to be no majority for
a change of the current "Restart after a goal" rule.
Regarding the start before the whistle, we need to find a solution for
all situations (free shot, restart after a goal, etc.). Please take a
look at the new discussion "Jumping the gun".